Ter-Tech Feb. 25 Drift Event

POLE-POSITION said:
jason i watched alot of you videos and your clutchkick entries get alittle boring. the Mid-Ohio event it looked like people were braking because you were going in slower then them then clutchkicking. yes that means no braking but it ususally mean throttle lift on the straightaway before the first turn. you are a good driver you should be able to get rid of the clutchkicking bad habit. Going in too fast then adjusting with the ebrake entry angle and speed it more what i think judges would want to see. thats is why i was so impressed with Noah and Erick's entires. who had the highest entry speed by the way.
Click to expand...

take a seat, class is in session.

ok well lemme say this. Mid-Ohio was the first time I did tandem, the first time I was on something not called an OVAL and the first time I was really trying to push the car. it was ALSO 6 months ago. Yes that event I did lift some, but I still was entering 2nd earliest from what I heard/saw (only nate brasz with mega ebrake entry was before). People might also be braking because I was kind of underpowered compared to the 400hp truck, the huge power turboed mustang, the 400hp motul 240.... just maybe the 230 i put down accels slower and makes them adjust to me. but notice how i enter pretty close behind them (when following in tandem) pretty close... meaning they must be lifting also.

now with more events under my belt I am getting more and more speed entry type course and have been less lift if any at all. now if you know how racing/drifting works, there is ALWAYS going to be a point in the course on entry that you can floor it to, initiate, and make it work. ebrake just makes it earlier because the rear wheels are NOT pushing you toward the inside of the turn while being on throttle does. this means you must give the car a feint to the outside and clutch kick violently to keep you car from tucking in early. trust me.

goto some competitions, every competition ive been to since mid-ohio the judges say basically- no lifting down the straight/entry, and you can use ebrake entry but its not preferred. clutch kick or feint is what we want to see.

im not getting into techinque showdown here, but really, you are wrong here on what judges want, and clutchkicking is NOT a bad habit, there is no other way my 230hp is gonna spin some 245s on some 17x9 wheels. unless I get some much better grip tires in the front... like 235/40 615s hahaha- now while I did poorly in west palm, I have numerous factors that just arent working well together right now to cause problems.

and just for fun,,,

ebrake - e-brake drifting is looked down upon during solo type drifting competition.
http://www.driftsession.com/technique.htm

*also note my previously mentioned shift-lock technique is just like they say about downshifting into a turn, not as an entry.

class is dismissed.

another fun activity would be to google "drifitng technique ebrake beginner"...

*note, we are discussing entry and not mid-drift technique.

ok back to your regularly scheudled thread

--West Palm of Our Lives-- *cheesy soap opera music plays*
 
Just take the constructive criticism, fix any problems with the car and do better. I personally have a very hard time clutch kicking my car to initiate the drift. I dont do it, im not good at it. But I can enter a turn with a ridiculously early e-brake, foot brake, shift lock (which is slow and bland IMO), upshifting or just tossing the wheel and lifting. Do what you are most comfortable with and make it good.

Everyone needs to run more grip and go faster. If you dont have your foot in the throttle for more then 95% of your drift then step up the grip or tune your car for more understeer.

I imagine you dont drive your car on the street. Having a car that handles like your track car would help familiarize your self with the track car. Thats one advantage of having a street \ daily driven drift car, you can make changes on the street and get used to them.

be a proactive driver, not a reactive driver.
 
Last edited:
are you serious?
constructive criticism - criticism or advice that is useful

his 'advice' is incorrect for competition and what judges want.
I already am trying to fix problems, duh.
The judges don't care if you can or cant do something, if you dont plan to compete then yes, do whatever the crap you want or like.
if you want to be competitive, get better at the techniques judges want to see. if they can tell you are using the ebrake then you are doing something wrong. period. talk to judges/pro drivers, I have.

95% throttle is not always possible, course setups can determine throttle need or possbility, but you are correct that many people need more grip or throttle commitment, including myself at times.

I even said im not trying to fight- hell i even agreed on somethings he said, but gave further info
I was stating facts, not being all pissy. how u read my posting(s) is up to you. (really i almost NEVER had a bitchy attitude)
maybe it was the 'class in session' but im just being goofy. later
 
boxmod said:
are you serious?
constructive criticism - criticism or advice that is useful

his 'advice' is incorrect for competition and what judges want.
I already am trying to fix problems, duh.
The judges don't care if you can or cant do something, if you dont plan to compete then yes, do whatever the crap you want or like.
if you want to be competitive, get better at the techniques judges want to see. if they can tell you are using the ebrake then you are doing something wrong. period. talk to judges/pro drivers, I have.

95% throttle is not always possible, course setups can determine throttle need or possbility, but you are correct that many people need more grip or throttle commitment, including myself at times.

I even said im not trying to fight- hell i even agreed on somethings he said, but gave further info
I was stating facts, not being all pissy. how u read my posting(s) is up to you. (really i almost NEVER had a bitchy attitude)
maybe it was the 'class in session' but im just being goofy. later
Click to expand...


Im pretty sure that a judge will score good consistant ebrake entries higher then sketchy clutch kicks that put you out wide of the apex and off line.

If the judges dont want to see the ebrake, then dont let them.

Take it for what its worth, but the reason why I said something about the rear grip is because I think you would benefit from it.

If my car is not driven correctly it will understeer to all hell. Having a car that is setup towards a slight understeer will make you drift the car. It will make you tell the car what to do. So everything you do is to keep the car sideways. Not to keep the car from spinning out. Look at the way Harri's bmw moves when he drives it. Watch how his car comes into switch backs and how he initiates. Then watch yours. You should see a difference, where the slip angles start how much angle. How much steering angle according to actual vehical yaw and wheel speed. Harri is a proactive driver, a very good driver. Next time you see a good driver do a demo, watch him and think about how he makes the car move.

just trying to slip you some advice.
 
Last edited:
i run grippy tires on my driver side... it seems to be a good setup so far, the car pulls hard every time i let go of the wheel, i figure its the car telling me it doesnt want to go straight, it wants to go side ways!
 
Choku_Dorian said:
i run grippy tires on my driver side... it seems to be a good setup so far, the car pulls hard every time i let go of the wheel, i figure its the car telling me it doesnt want to go straight, it wants to go side ways!
Click to expand...

around an oval.




Jason no i think the way you handled my critisism was well done. But i trust Rick in this department more then most people and i didnt even have to talk to him about it.

"This drifting technique is very basic, pull the E-Brake or side brake to induce rear traction loss and balance drift through steering and throttle play. This can also be used to correct errors or fine tune drift angles. Main drift technique used in FWD vehicles, however since it does decrease speeds, e-brake drifting is looked down upon during solo (tansou) type drifting competition."

that is what the site says. but this is a very simple minded way to describe it. "very basic" thats a funny one.
 
Last edited:
240SicknessX said:
Im pretty sure that a judge will score good consistant ebrake entries higher then sketchy clutch kicks that put you out wide of the apex and off line.

If the judges dont want to see the ebrake, then dont let them.

Take it for what its worth, but the reason why I said something about the rear grip is because I think you would benefit from it.

If my car is not driven correctly it will understeer to all hell. Having a car that is setup towards a slight understeer will make you drift the car. It will make you tell the car what to do. So everything you do is to keep the car sideways. Not to keep the car from spinning out. Look at the way Harri's bmw moves when he drives it. Watch how his car comes into switch backs and how he initiates. Then watch yours. You should see a difference, where the slip angles start how much angle. How much steering angle according to actual vehical yaw and wheel speed. Harri is a proactive driver, a very good driver. Next time you see a good driver do a demo, watch him and think about how he makes the car move.

just trying to slip you some advice.
Click to expand...

ok you are being VERY unfair... I can say this if we argue like that: I bet judges would like to see consistent clutch kick entries rather than a low angle intitiation that takes 10 seconds to develop and is slower than the competitors.

you already said a 'sketchy entry' before u even cared what kind, so no shit, its not goin to score well. if IF IFI IFIFIFIFIFIF I cluctch kick it and you ebrake it, and we get the EXACT SAME entry speed, angle, smoke, line I GUARANTEE the judges will give me a slight edge because of technique.

if I tell someone I made it through Algebra 1 with an A they say ok, its EASY (ebrake entry) but if I tell someone else I made it thought Calculus 3 with a B they are like thats crazy- its so hard (clutch).... even though the score is a little lower, its more impressive and takes more skill to do well. Maybe with more studying (track time) you could get the A in calc3.

as for the rest of what you said all I can say is,
"no sh!t, you think?"

another good idea is to imagine your trusty ebrake, breaking in the beginning of the day- no way to fix it. you are SCREWED if you cannot clutch kick at higher speeds and do it even 'ok'..... now if I need to do ebrake entry for whatever reason, I bet I can get the hang of it faster than you would clutching...

i could keep giving other pointers and scenarios but instead im just going to give up and let others decide what to read and listen to.... i mean you said 'i think the judges would prefer' while i said 'the judges at every event have said'.... seems like a tough choice.
 
Last edited:
Clutch kick entries with lots of speed are definitely more difficult than ebrake and when executed properly; look better, sound better, and are so much more rewarding for the driver. I don't understand why anyone came down on box in the first place. It wasn't his best day on the track - leave it at that.

nfs_emo_fag said:
ahhhhhhhhhhh my fc doesnt rotate when i lift off the throttle...... ive watched the video of myself and there was no throttle lift to get my car sideways. if anything my car would grip not rotate. i know i didnt have the fastest entry either, but i sure the hell was trying! :bigthumbu
Click to expand...


I didn't say you were lifting so settle down. I liked your driving, it was the best you've ever done. I was speaking hypothetically to josh, who has most of his drift experience in an FC and mentioned something to an s-chassis driver about throttle lift oversteer - something s-chassis do not have a natural tendency to do. FC's do however have a natural tendency to rotate with throttle lift because of the trailing arm rear suspension. I've driven plenty of them. If you can't get your car to rotate by lifting, you need to hit up an auto-x.
 
What's so different between a clutch kick and an ebrake??? You lifted either way. That's what the judges look at.
 
when the term no lifting is brought up, it is mostly refferring to the acceleration part of the track and not the entire track.... no lift up until the initiation- whatever method you use.
 
boxmod said:
ok you are being VERY unfair... I can say this if we argue like that: I bet judges would like to see consistent clutch kick entries rather than a low angle intitiation that takes 10 seconds to develop and is slower than the competitors.

you already said a 'sketchy entry' before u even cared what kind, so no shit, its not goin to score well. if IF IFI IFIFIFIFIFIF I cluctch kick it and you ebrake it, and we get the EXACT SAME entry speed, angle, smoke, line I GUARANTEE the judges will give me a slight edge because of technique.

if I tell someone I made it through Algebra 1 with an A they say ok, its EASY (ebrake entry) but if I tell someone else I made it thought Calculus 3 with a B they are like thats crazy- its so hard (clutch).... even though the score is a little lower, its more impressive and takes more skill to do well. Maybe with more studying (track time) you could get the A in calc3.

as for the rest of what you said all I can say is,
"no sh!t, you think?"

another good idea is to imagine your trusty ebrake, breaking in the beginning of the day- no way to fix it. you are SCREWED if you cannot clutch kick at higher speeds and do it even 'ok'..... now if I need to do ebrake entry for whatever reason, I bet I can get the hang of it faster than you would clutching...

i could keep giving other pointers and scenarios but instead im just going to give up and let others decide what to read and listen to.... i mean you said 'i think the judges would prefer' while i said 'the judges at every event have said'.... seems like a tough choice.
Click to expand...

LOL I'm sorry bro... with all the shit I heard you say on this post (now that I read it) you should have just said you had a bad day and left it at that.

You're whole math comparison is out of bounds.... you are comparing ebraking (Algebra... which isnt as "algebra" as you think, especially beyond entry point where you give up a steering hand and a foot for it) to what TonyMac described as a clutch kick... a proper high speed clutch kick, which as I mentioned before, it's lifting in both cases since you clutch in for both (if you dont clutch in for ebrake, I feel sorry for your drivetrain).

What you seemed to be doing is a very lower speed clutch kick.... and that's MAT0024.... pre elementary algebra. :p

I'm not even going to hold Bladder's video against you because it seems his camera was focused on "bad runs" mode. :D

As for the ebrake reliability. I dont know about you... but I have a THICK ass ebrake cable that has been trustworthy enough. Guillermo mentioned that his drums had to crack in 3 different pieces for his ebrake to go bad, and he did it on an automatic (no clutch to release the drivetrain). An ebrake in essence is just as reliable as a clutch. It depends on usage and how much it wore down. And just like you say "well you could snap a cable"... I'll come back and say "you could crack a pressure plate". but Erick, WHAT ARE THE CHANCES?!?! 1 in a million. But its there for either case.

You say you could keep giving pointers, but you admitted to inexperience in anything but an oval as early as 6 months ago. So what's up?

Not hating man, but you need stronger arguments. Josh's comments were constructive criticism.... I was not studying your runs to say so myself, but he has always done the same for me.

In the end, we're here to help. If we werent, a big f*ck you and a foot up your ass would be issued.... landing you in floridadrift.com. And I wouldnt wish that in my worst enemy. :p

Anyhow... yea meng... take all this stuff with a grain of salt.... see what you can relate to it and improve on that.

- Erick

Edit: As for the lifting comment. You swing your ass way out to the point you're using all your steering to slow you down (as you can see in my 2nd run on bladder's video)... that'll count against you... it's a loss of speed because you'll be full steering, no gas, trying to save your own ass from a spin. At this point you're not in control, you're fighting for it.

Lifting past entry matters....a LOT. If it didnt, underpowered Hachi's would really be in a shithole, because not lifting is the only thing they have going for them. (OMG I DEFENDEZ TEH HAXXIS?!!?)
 
Last edited:
holy shit, this is insane... first the math thing is a metaphor and does indeed make sense.
as for the event
THE CAR WAS SETUP BADLY, MAKING ME FIGHT THE CAR YES,
MAKING ME INCONSISTENT YES,
THAT IS NOT WHAT IM ARGUING
ALL I AM ARGUING IS THAT CLUTCH KICK IS BETTER TO DO THAN EBRAKE,
GOTO A MORE COMPETITIONS AND LISTEN TO THE JUDGES. WHAT IVE TOLD YOU WAS WHAT THE FORMULA D DRIVERS TOLD US AT PRO-AM NATIONALS, IM NOT GIVING MY POV, BUT THEIRS, CALL FD AND COMPLAIN TO THEM.

i already know i did poorly sunday, thats not the point. jesus. i really dont know what else to say except this is the dumbest thread ever.

go search other forums for ebrake entry thoughts... try it
 
Well, the biggest D1 entries are usually ebrake initiated but that's because they are going 100+mph.
 
Yes, and what I am arguing (among other things) is how the clutch kick is done.\


^^^^ Yes, exactly Anthony. The point is entry speed, it doesnt matter how its done. And I've said that earlier in this thread already.
 
At under 90, if you're not clutch kicking, you're playing it safe. Judges realize that. Box is right.
 
Tonymac said:
At under 90, if you're not clutch kicking, you're playing it safe. Judges realize that. Box is right.
Click to expand...

That could be argued forever... even with the judges. Get a radar gun at the apex of the first corner... I'm willing to bet the style of entry will have very little to do with the initiation used.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom