GUN Owners: Opinions needed

since we changed this discussion to stopping power vs bullet caliber I'll throw my personal experience in.

wife beater, black undershirt, button down dress shirt, two ply jacket (kinda like a thick windbreaker but not really a coat, it was raining). took 2 9mm hollow points to the chest area. bleeding but the bullet shrapnel was stuck in the skin (didnt penetrate into the body cavity)

2nd instance, putting a small cow down on a farm. 9mm 4 inches off the skull. took it once, ran off, came back to eat the corn we threw out. no blood.



also, you cant use the (let me shoot you with a 9 and see if you go down, because normal people dont want to get shot with a .22 the thing is, your not pulling your weapon on A NORMAL person. they must have a motivation they feel so strongly about that they are willing to take a bullet and continue. a .45 stops them. a 9 hurts them.


TD;DR yes i conceal a .45 and leave my 9 for the gun range.
 
^Only prob with a .45 is after a certain amount of yards your pretty much throwing the round at the person. It moves so slow you can literally watch it go down range. With a 40 cal you get more stopping power than a 9mm but longer range than a .45, best of both worlds IMO.
 
JS said:
^Only prob with a .45 is after a certain amount of yards your pretty much throwing the round at the person. It moves so slow you can literally watch it go down range. With a 40 cal you get more stopping power than a 9mm but longer range than a .45, best of both worlds IMO.
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you should only shoot to defend your life or the life of another. using deadly force at anything over 20 yards is hard to proof lawful.

there are 5 things that need to be certain before using deadly force. ill look them up later. but its like. 1 is the force applied to you great enough to cause you to use deadly force. 2 would a normal person in your situation revert to deadly force. 3 is the crime committed high enough to justify use of deadly force (home invasion yes, stealing your car from your driveway no). two more i cant recall the wording and dont want to leave misinformation.


normal .45 bullet speed
The typical factory load for the .45 ACP uses a 230 grain bullet (either FMJ or JHP) at a published muzzle velocity (in a 5" barrel) of 850 feet per second

what our eye can see
The human eye/brain combination allows us to "see" at a rate of 100+ frames per second.
 
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crayZwhiteboy said:
since we changed this discussion to stopping power vs bullet caliber I'll throw my personal experience in.

wife beater, black undershirt, button down dress shirt, two ply jacket (kinda like a thick windbreaker but not really a coat, it was raining). took 2 9mm hollow points to the chest area. bleeding but the bullet shrapnel was stuck in the skin (didnt penetrate into the body cavity)

2nd instance, putting a small cow down on a farm. 9mm 4 inches off the skull. took it once, ran off, came back to eat the corn we threw out. no blood.



also, you cant use the (let me shoot you with a 9 and see if you go down, because normal people dont want to get shot with a .22 the thing is, your not pulling your weapon on A NORMAL person. they must have a motivation they feel so strongly about that they are willing to take a bullet and continue. a .45 stops them. a 9 hurts them.


TD;DR yes i conceal a .45 and leave my 9 for the gun range.
Click to expand...

Buy a tokarev... end of argument :D

---------- Post added at 09:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 AM ----------
crayZwhiteboy said:
you should only shoot to defend your life or the life of another. using deadly force at anything over 20 yards is hard to proof lawful.

there are 5 things that need to be certain before using deadly force. ill look them up later. but its like. 1 is the force applied to you great enough to cause you to use deadly force. 2 would a normal person in your situation revert to deadly force. 3 is the crime committed high enough to justify use of deadly force (home invasion yes, stealing your car from your driveway no). two more i cant recall the wording and dont want to leave misinformation.


normal .45 bullet speed
The typical factory load for the .45 ACP uses a 230 grain bullet (either FMJ or JHP) at a published muzzle velocity (in a 5" barrel) of 850 feet per second

what our eye can see
The human eye/brain combination allows us to "see" at a rate of 100+ frames per second.
Click to expand...


my 7.62 x 25 goes 1720 fps, and goes through armor, so extra clothing is not a problem. Cheaper than .45 ammo. Cheaper and and more reliable than a glock any day.
 
i've heard little kids surviving from stray .45 caliber rounds.
I've seen grown men die from a .22 caliber.

I think when it comes down to neutralizing power, it comes down to how accurate your shot it, and emptying your magazine, with as many hollow points from your (pref. 17+ round) firearm:D,

or 23 round .40 caliber firearm:chair:
 
OP, check this video out.

.

and also, Ricky cash has a very good point. bullet placement > cal
 
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hollow points. they arent always a good thing for self defense


hstsm.jpg
 
i got about halfway into the video until he started talking about how you should carry it without a round in the chamber....

for concealed carry.... without a round ready.... with your life on the line....fuuuuuck that
 
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