$700 Billion Bailout Passed!

Haha I leave for a few days and now you guys want me to talk about this stuff. ;)

Um no we're in a really shitty state. The free market system can't operate properly when there is interference. This is why I'm usually totally against liberal tax plans and bills. Our system has been severely messed with over the years between trying to tax the crap out of corporations (which in turn leads them to spend billions trying to avoid paying taxes and thus limits their ability to reinvest) to handing out trillions in loans to people who could never afford to pay them back, we're in a bad place. Also much of the debt - which was considered almost 100% safe - is held by foreign investment. If they decided to collect on debt or just stop investing (which they're doing), we burn.

I don't have any answers here. I think we're at a point where major change is needed in one direction or another. We cannot operate in a semi-socialist state or a quasi-free market - however you want to perceive it. The system was never designed that way. IMO its time for a radical change b/c anything they do now to "fix" the problem will only create new firewalls as opposed to putting out the fire. If socialism is the way, then the gov should absorb the debt and we the people will need to be taxed higher to pay for it. If its back to our roots and free market time, we should let these institutions crumble, suffer bad in the short run, and put our faith back into a capitalistic society. I am pretty afraid of the latter to be honest - I have always been an advocate of capitalism but the blow we could potentially suffer would be severe. Hyperinflation and breadlines could be a reality.

This is all really confusing and I'm simply not informed (or smart) enough to figure anything out. What I know; it is a verifiable fact that Bush pushed for more transparency in these markets for years and congress consistently denied his requests claiming the institutions were being operated properly and were in no economic crisis. Obviously that wasn't true. Now he's trying to pass basically the same plan while at the same time relying on the American taxpayer to foot the bill. Not a very republican thing at all yet congress still wants no part of it. I have a hunch that this is all more politically driven than anything. Obama has been trying to paint the picture that McCain = Bush and congress/Obama has been telling us that Bush ruined the economy. The sad part is, we will be the ones suffering one way or another. *shakes magic 8-ball* "outlook not good"
 
If corporations where a little less greedy we wouldnt have a big of a problem as we have now . I dont mind big business but the direction these corporations have been going is pretty shameful, basically they want to make as much money as possible no matter the cost and now the cost has got pretty high. They do all they can to pay as little as possible to a government that makes it possible for them to make all their money. They ship off jobs overseas to make probably less then a 10% increase in profits. They'll cut corners and release less then quality products just to save a few pennies. The ceo's of companies will make so much money that their childrens children will not have to work while the employees barely make enough to live yet alone retire.

couple the above with stupid people spending way more then they can afford trying to live the American dream instead of the American reality. When you think of the American dream you think of a house with a garage, new car, 2.5 children and a stay at home wife. You used to be able to do that with a blue collar job in the 50s but not anymore. On top of that our culture convinces you that you need shit that you really dont (gold, designer clothes, huge suv to take your two kids to school etc.). The banks, wanting to make profits catered to these idiots and now look at them.

Anyway the gist of it is if Americans would spend more responsibly and live more within their means and the American corporations where a little less greedy the economy would be fine.

I dont want government to control banks becuase the government was never suppose to be that powerful not to mention in the long run citizens get no benefit. I would love to just let the banks and companies fail and crash and burn and watch while rich greedy pricks jump to their deaths from sky rises but the aftermath of that could be catastrophic. It seems we are in a parasitic cycle of companies wanting to sell us shit we cant afford and us doing whatever we can to buy the shit they say we need.
 
That's the nature of capitalism and globalization. If you think capping our local corporations will do any good, think again. Where ours begin to fail b/c we can't keep costs down and products competitive, foreign corporations will begin to emerge and dominate. Its just like how Toyota has plants here to cut costs. It gives Americans jobs too. Try to fight it all you want but until there is a global bank running the show and a global currency, capitalism will exist unregulated outside of the country and probably always will. As such, corporations will look to save money anywhere they can b/c they HAVE to in order to stay competitive globally (which is a must in today's economy). Regulating our corporations is obviously also a must but putting tremendous tax burdens on them is not a necessity. They are the lifeline of the country, why would we cut them off at the knees? And don't forget, they're spending to avoid taxes that shouldn't be there in the first place (shouldn't in the sense of what our country's system was founded on). This is what I mean by interfering w/ the market. And that's not what caused the situation we're in now anyway. Quite simply, we've become too comfortable as a society living beyond our means. Where government should be setting a more positive example, they're in over their ears in debt as well as encouraging such behavior nationally. This "bailout" was supposed to provide more lines of credit to americans...great, more debt.
 
I am not saying government should police big business, I was just saying if they would be just a little less greedy then this might not have happened, the chances of that happening is as likely as Americans becoming responsible with their money, next to none.

Well look at the bright side, say we do collapse financially then wouldnt China and other places outsource their jobs to us once we become the lowest bidders? Our military wouldnt be as strong and our way of life may not be as good but we would have a stable economy.

I agree with you on everything but the taxes, the companies dont pay them anyway and they go through great lengths to find loopholes. I believe if you make more money personally or corporately you should have to pay higher taxes to help keep the machine (USA) running smoothly. I dont have any ulterior motives as higher taxes for the rich would not benefit me in anyway (I have a job and pay for my shit) and also to some people I would be considered pretty rich. it just makes sense to me, then again I am the asshole that gives those homeless guys money for "food" when I am sure a lot of them buy booze/ drugs. Of course I think the taxes should be fair as well. Also I would love to not pay taxes but I would also like to not work anymore but alas you have to have both :(.

Oh well, the world is changing and we are no longer the big fish in the small pond. We may just have to get used to not being the world power or even in the top three. Life may get real interesting in the next few years.
 
Well corporate taxes in America are already higher than they are in France, which is a socialist system. I'm not sure how much more you'd expect them to pay or why. Corporate reinvestment is how corporations grow. Its basic economic theory. Blaming our country's primary source of income on our problems is working backwards. We are not so lucky as to have any abundant supply of any valuable natural resource. And no China is a totalitarian society. When they need more labor, they'll pull more peasants off the farm to work.
 
They may be taxed higher but do they actually pay or do they find loopholes. I dont think neither one of use knows the true extent of what goes on in the economy to have a solid stance on this though you are more well versed then me, I can be swayed if you present a good enough argument.

+ I suck at debating :D
 
Do corporations really pay taxes? Nope! We (read:customers) do. Ok so I'm being a bit crass here. The IRS most definitely collects on corporate income taxes though. There is no avoiding them. But like you, me, and any other tax paying citizen, they'll do their best to deduct whatever is possible!

How we got into this mess is easy to understand - how to get out is an open debate. That is where I can comfortably say "i have no idea." Anybody who says they can solve this issue better run to capital hill and offer up their wisdom. Nobody has an answer though b/c there is no "solution." Only options. If you're a libertarian/constitutionalist type, you're about the only ones who definitively agree on an option - let them crumble, suffer the consequences, and rebuild.
 
Oh boy, this should be interesting! And on top of a horrid economy they give us two packaged and ready to deliver candidates, meaning (bullshit candidates)!!
 
Arauz said:
The 700 billion dollar Bill just got passed by the House, now we are waiting on Bush to sign it and that's it. Let's see if he can spell his name lol.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/03/news/economy/house_friday_bailout/index.htm?postversion=2008100309

What can we expect TonyMac???:confused:
Click to expand...

It is signed and will do absolutely nothing.....Well it will slow the decline of our economy but it is up to wall street and lending institutions to be smarter with their money and also what direction the next President is going to take the economy.

I think Tonymac had the same feeling I do, I would almost rather had the free market correct itself and face some hard times then bail out a bunch of irresponsible businesses for an immediate temporary fix. I believe the economy would have corrected itself in time but it would not have been pretty and it would have put more accountability into the publics hands, sure its technically our 700 billion but we are so far removed from it it doesnt really effect our everyday lives.

Edit: The simple answer is, the bail out is great for people who have a lot of money in the stock market or those who are well established financially (like maybe your parents) but really means little at this point for people who do not have a lot of equity yet. It is just to make sure that the worst case scenario doesnt happen which may or may not have happened if we let the market heal itself.
 
Last edited:
Its true I'm not really for this bail out. Well I am but I'm not. Its full of (number could be wrong) $150 billion dollars worth of fat and in total, this bailout has been "conservatively estimated" to cost closer to $3 trillion when its all said and done. God damn.

For the people that don't know, the Fed makes money available by printing more bills. Literally its that simple. $700billion is a lot of bills. Inflation will go up and everything will get more expensive so that means people/businesses may be more likely to default on their loans! That would put us in an even worse position than we are now (if nobody's learned their lessons, it will happen). In the past, printing money wasn't SO bad b/c we had foreign investment. Now that those billions of dollars in debt aren't worth squat, I don't think we're going to see much foreign investment for a while. Times will be rough. Maybe.

I hope this shit works though!!!!
 
I forgot Uncle Scrooge sounded Scottish lol

One thing, whoever made that video didn't have much to complain about at the time - we weren't so bad. now on the other hand...
 
i went to the salvage yard yesterday to scrap some shit and they use to pay $.14 per pound when i got my slip they are only paying $.06 per pound fuckin stock market crashing crusehed the price of steel.

Oh and i love how NASCAR gets a tax break as part of the bail out WTF?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom