What makes a good drift car?

Yeah, had a feeling that TC Rods were Tension Rods... how do they help the car during a drift tho? I imagine they are adjustable. What do they control? What does their adjustment affect?
 
240SicknessX said:
i dont know how the hell offset its self helps or hurts your drifting abilities, on the other hand various offsets in different wheel widths allow you to run a wide tire in the rear, or a stretched narrow tire with out clearance issues.

A heavier car is slower to the drivers imputs! I have "drifted" my car with 3 people, 2 extra tire in the back, with all kinds of atleast 100lb crap in the trunk with a full tank of gas. i weighed my car a couple weeks ago at (automatic transmission+turbo setup) 2900lbs with very little gas. add 550lbs with driver and passengers, another 125 for my loaded down trunk, and 100lbs for 14 gallons of gas. My s14 weighed close to 3700 lbs that night. The agility of the car went to 0, my imputs to the car were sluggish slow. IT sucked. Now if i had my car in track condition it would weigh 2950ish with me in it. 800lbs lighter is simply amazing. You can go faster into turns with out loosing control or taking some obsean line. The car is much more responsive to your imputs and you can adjust your speed and angle faster, more accuratly.

In Theory you could adjust the amount of grip you have to the amount of weight\ inertia that is generated by the car to gain the same balence between the tires and weight. but then with all that grip you would have to travel at redicilous speeds to initiate \ maintain a drift. It simply would be too fast, things would happen too fast and if possible it would take a long time to adjust to the way the car behaves. Because none of us here have a track to practise on everyweek, 80% of our experiance is gained on the street. Trying to learn on the street with that much grip is out of hand and damn near impossible, i dont care how much time you put into it. I am struggeling my self to adapt my techniques to slide these 260 treadwear 245 50 16's the same manner that i could slide a 195 NA. I would have to say that the weirdest thing about "drifting" with as much grip in the rear as i do is that you are accelerating so much though the turn. This acceration, changing the speed of your slide in the middle of your drift also changes how much lateral grip you have, try to calculate all of this along with your steering imputs to get in that 2 lane exit is nerve racking and difficult.

Lighter cars are just easier\ more practical\ better\ for everything about drift. Thats why the larger vehicals in professional competition drifting use fiber glass doors, carbon fiber hoods, trunks ect, and lexan windows. With these kinds of modifications i am pretty sure they can achive atleast a 2900lb weight.
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You have the perfect idea about weight but that's just one part of the equation. What really matters in any motorsport is a power to weight ratio. Because you can look at Hachi's..... gut me an entire stock SR5 and go try sliding. It's not going to be easy because that thing still barely has enough power to take off in 1st.

On the same token, this is how they have Vaughn Gittin's (sp?) Mustang getting sideways, because you know that Mustang is putting down more power than all the other Falken import cars. Obviously that car is lightened like crazy, but there is only so much you can lighten off a car. Power makes up for it. Rhys Millen also slides a pig of a GTO. Those things stock are heavy *** mother****ers, but I'm pretty sure that thing is 500-1000lbs lighter.

Anyhow, a good drift car is only achieved by a good driver. A good driver can get in any car and slide it. Many drifters have their cars setup to their own liking, where they feel they can maximize their abilities. Some might setup up their cars for maximum oversteer, some might have a well balanced car, and some might just throw in some understeer. Every single setup has it's advantages and disadvantages, it just comes down to the driver to see what he can work best with.
 
Ok, but that being said, how do you tune for the understeer or oversteer? We still haven't gotten to the Steering and Suspension part in school so I still dont know... And i know i can just wait and learn but im impatient damn it! :D
 
Spring rates, shock damper, sway bars, anything you change in your suspension affects your tendency to oversteer or understeer.
 
Thanks Uras. Yeah, it does help. RWDrift, speaking of Spring Rates and Shock Dampening... Explain Spring Rates to me... Also, if someone can finally explain it to me... I've heard about Dampening several times allready and still haven't got a clue. Anyone care to share?
 
Uras of the East said:
that is bull, the lower the ride the lower the CG.
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Yes your right but you also forgot a couple things....Lowering the front of an S13 too much will bottom out suspension and frame....Raising the ride height in the rear induces oversteer....not common in Drifting or racing, they ussually have enough power and dont need to use this...

Also having a lower offset wheels do help ALOT depending of stock wheel size and offset....a wider track of the car helps in the handling department....Now im not saying get a 3 inch wide wheel and have an offset of -30 the stock 15x6+40 will probly give a wider tracking.....
Offsets really easy
given a width of a wheel the offset determine where the hub bolts onto the wheel.
You start at 0 offset witch is the center width of the wheel meaning in a 15x6 wheel, the hub would bolt on 3inches outward towards the fender and 3 inches inward towards the suspension. now since our Stock wheels are a gay +40 you add 40mm inward and minus 40mm outward.
same for negative offsets.
Formula(rounded mm's):
6mm is 1/4 inch
13 is half an inch
26 is a full inch

15x6 +0 is +78mm (3 inches) outwards towards the fender from the hub and -78mm (3 inches)inwards towards the suspension.
15x6+40 is +38mm outwards towards the fender from the hub and -118 inwards towards the suspension.

Now KWkouki had 15x7 witch is a perfect 3.5 inches outwards and 3.5 inches inward, compared to the stock 15x6 +40 offset wheels, the 15x7 +0 came out to +53mm outwards past the stock fenders:) and 27mm's farther out from the stock suspension.

hope you guys got the idea, once you get it its only basic math....I really hope im not the only person that understands offset of the wheel?
Now along with the wheels theres other stuff liek backspacing....witch i might make a hole new thread to cover or maybe copy and paste it form another site.

Dampening: the Shock rebound or bound
Rebound- How fast the shocks goes back to ride height after being surpressed.
Bound-How hard the shock is to surpress. (most common)
 
Ok ok before we get any major misconceptions everyone must read this.. its on an SE-R page i know but all of it is universal knowlage that must be understood before you do anyhting to your cars suspension. It explanes everything besides offset

http://www.se-r.net/car_info/suspension_tuning.html

also offset can help you by widening your wheel track... like those old pontiac comercials wider is better. The wider the wheel track the more stable the car will be and it will have more grip. That is how you can tune grip with wheel spacers. More spacers/less offset =more grip although most people do it solely for looks
 
Wow... feels like im @ school reading from the text book. So much information... So many big words. So difficult to understand at first. Thanks S13, tho i dont understand most of what you said im sure its helpful and ill work at understanding it. :D
 
suspension tuneing is about balence anything you change on the front will affect the rear. and I do mean anything. as far as mods if your good like me and stuff (fake gloating) you wont need to many or any to drift competently. I had one major mod on my s12 and it was a exedy stage 1 clutch. but the biggest improvement came with better tires on the front. This is the best thing you can do as a beginner put HIGH grip tires on the front to reduce understeer and improve steering response and control. This is why you see amature drifters with big wheels on the front and stockers on the back unless they have quite a bit of power. Front end grip is Key. Also taking out everything that is not nessary at the time. Its okay to not want to rip up your interior but if you are at the track or know you are gonna go drifting take the back seat out its real simple i think its like a couple bolts on the s13 and your spare tire and the other crap on top of it. that will also help correct the inherent understeer of the s13.

I know alot about understeer, at one time i refered to myself as the understeer king on this forum. The S12 Unders like the presedent lies... all the time so i did alot of ajustment s to suit my driving style to get that car to stop undering. Bigger wheels and tires for the front 225/50/16's falken Zeix 512 +15 offset ( they kinda stuck outside the fenders but that wider track helped with the under)
I took most of the front end off the car to lighten the front up and i cut the supports out of the hood (well not all of them) broke one of the windows ( its a mod I swear) took my passengers seat out while i was drifting. all of that made a HUGE difference.

do what ever you want to your car as long as you remeber balence
 
Is there anyway to know how any particular suspension tune will react on the track? Or is it more of a tune and test kind of thing? I imagine that any particular after market part thrown on the car (ie coilovers) provide a semi stock feel once thrown on the car without modifications. I know that any aftermarket part should improve the handeling of the vehicle on wich the part was added. But how do you know the difference between a street setup and a drift setup?
 
Street set-up IMO is closer to a stock feel, softer dampening...tires arnt DOT-R lol....IMO NOT a gutted interior, A low tone exhaust, good hp nothing crazy...

Drift-Set-up IMO closer to a race car feel, Harder dampening,HIGH grip tires.....gutted interior and engine bay, Loud exhaust, crazy hp...
 
ProjectRB26DETT said:
As far as bolt ons are concerned, I was concidering Tanabe Sustec Pro S-S Type II coilovers, Rotora 6 piston front, and 4 piston rear brake upgrades (comes with cross drilled/slotted rotors), I have an LSD here at my house that i bought off a friend, but im second guessing using it... Have to take apart the pumpkin, and take a look at the diff its self. Check the condition. As for power, got planned on having a KA24DET sitting under the hood. Im hoping im on the right track. As i said befor, this is a project car meaning sadly, I'll be riding around on a scooter till this project is done... and even when its done, its going to be a 0 mile KA24DET (able to handel 400hp daily) that needs to be broken in. I want this car to be just right. Tired of the motor problems of cheap cars so this ones going to be rebuilt... and while im at it, might as well do everything else to it too . I just want this car to be done right.
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Well i imagine you guys read what i have planned for my project car.... Once again, as little factory parts as possible. At first i was thinking (and im still concidering) using this project car as a daily driver once its completed. It'll have full interior but it might be pushing 300+ hp daily driven if all goes as planned. I imagine with the 4 way front/8 way rear adjustment that the coilovers provide that it can handle both street and strip performance. But is it recommended? Or should this project be strictly a drift car? Opinions please.
 
Lower offset DOES NOT necessarily = "better handling". Creating a wider stance should increase stability, but then the driver will have to deal with a change in scrub radius. There will also be increased stress on your wheel hubs from running a lower offset wheel. Anyway, a good thing to remember about adjusting anything suspension related on your car...there are usually ALWAYS compramises that must be made. Can you deal with increased tire wear? Sluggish turn-in? At the limit understeer? Snap oversteer? Ect. Ect. Ect.
 
Ok, only valid reason that i've noticed thus far for changing a vehicle from a 4 lug to a 5 lug was for the supposed offset issue. From what i've been hearing, the wheels offset isn't that much of an issue for it to be nessesary to convert over to a 5 lug system. So whats with so many people doing a 5 lug conversion on their S13's? Is it because there are more rims available for 5 lugs as opposed to 4 lugs? Or is there some other reason?
 
Piner said:
Ok ok before we get any major misconceptions everyone must read this.. its on an SE-R page i know but all of it is universal knowlage that must be understood before you do anyhting to your cars suspension. It explanes everything besides offset

http://www.se-r.net/car_info/suspension_tuning.html

also offset can help you by widening your wheel track... like those old pontiac comercials wider is better. The wider the wheel track the more stable the car will be and it will have more grip. That is how you can tune grip with wheel spacers. More spacers/less offset =more grip although most people do it solely for looks
Click to expand...

This is good stuff..... the guy hates on what we call drifting like crazy tho.
 
ProjectRB26DETT said:
Ok, only valid reason that i've noticed thus far for changing a vehicle from a 4 lug to a 5 lug was for the supposed offset issue. From what i've been hearing, the wheels offset isn't that much of an issue for it to be nessesary to convert over to a 5 lug system. So whats with so many people doing a 5 lug conversion on their S13's? Is it because there are more rims available for 5 lugs as opposed to 4 lugs? Or is there some other reason?
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Wheel choice thats it, 5 lug has nothing to do wtih offset, it's just that most 4-lug wheels aren't made with the kind of offset we wan't being as how 4 lug wheels are usually for Front Wheel Drive vehicles. But nowadays wheels are coming out for both lug patters and most 13",14",15",16" JDM wheels have nice offset choices, it's the 17",18",19''etc... that don't make nice 4 lug wheels.
 
ProjectRB26DETT said:
Thanks Uras. Yeah, it does help. RWDrift, speaking of Spring Rates and Shock Dampening... Explain Spring Rates to me... Also, if someone can finally explain it to me... I've heard about Dampening several times allready and still haven't got a clue. Anyone care to share?
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Think this would make the third time asked... Dampening please... Spring Rates i got from the SE-R link that Piner posted (thank you Piner). But dampening is still a mystery to me. What is Dampening? How does it affect performance? How does it help/hinder angle/ability to oversteer/understeer? How does it affect ride comfort (not that it matters realy). :confused:
 
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