*sigh* n00bs

B

BLADDER_MASTER

is no more
So I'm in one of the Celica forums I visit daily and I come upon a topic where the guy's Celica lost traction, snapped back, and crashed. Lucky for him nothing major happened, just some scratches on his bumper. Afterwards I scroll down to read the replies and what follows will shock you.

(For those that don't want to read the whole thing, basically the guy says that no matter what, any FWD car will lose to any RWD/AWD car.)

n00b:
your suspension is completely stock, and you have zero dollars invested in decent rubber/wheels on your car. you're trying to act fast & furious in a sporty grocery getter, you may as well have been in a ford tempo.

take a look at this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_wheel_d...ont_wheel_drive

there are too many disadvantages to using FWD as a platform for racing. it isn't designed for it.

keep in mind that car manufacturers designed front wheel drive for one reason - cost. you have been lulled in to a false sense of security because you THINK your car handles great, when in fact, it handles like **** in comparison to any rwd/awd car. people on here believe that the 6th gens are gods gift to ultimate handling, and they're completely wrong. they're always going to handle like ****, because they're FWD cars.

drive safe, if a cop catches you doing this ****, or you hurt someone, you'll wish you drove like a grandma. take it from someone who is currently riding on 3 tickets, it isn't fun.
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BLADDER:
Also, I disagree with sinner96ST's statement about "they're always going to handle like ****, because they're FWD cars." A properly built FWD with a good driver can prove you wrong.
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n00b:
properly built sure, i should have modified my statement to :

stock, mind you, if you pit any FWD car against any rear wheel, or all wheel drive car, you will lose. because of the design, they do not handle as well in extreme conditions as some of their other counterparts.

if you're talking about a built FWD platform, sure, you might be able to hang with the big boys. however, dump the same amount of money in to an awd/rwd car, and then we'll see which handles better at that point, and which can handle power better to the ground, which is a vital part of the handling of any car. you can't dump 300 horses in a FF car and expect great results in the straights or the twisties.

fwd isn't really known for it's prowess in handling. it's an economical design thought up by engineers who wanted to put all their eggs in one basket. you can put all the money in the world in to a FF car, and it still won't transfer weight evenly, won't handle as well, and won't be able to handle as much power as a rwd or awd car.
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BLADDER:
So untrue. How would you explain ITR's and CTR's pwning RWD and AWD cars? I'm talking stock with equal driver experience on both sides. It's like saying a stock 240SX can beat an Integra Type R. :laugh: Sorry but I just had to laugh.
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Discuss.
 
Maybe he should watch the Togue Battle with teh JUN HONDA PRELUDE! He tore that shit up
 
FWD - it goes something like this:

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit, but you can make it taste a whole lot better.

Yeah, you can MAKE a fwd handle well, especially after a goofy ass alignment, uber stiff springs, and grippy grippy tires. In the end, its still FWD which to me = not rewarding to drive and faaaar less fun.
 
2 BIG things that are bad on FWD cars, all the weight is up front, and 2 the front tires do EVERYTHING, BRAKE, ACCELERATE, GRIP....while RWD vehicles ussally have better front and rear weight distribution, and the front tires only have to worry about braking and grip....also FWD front tires heat up very fast which in turn makes them not grip at all, now I have seen WAY to many videos of FWD vehicles handling EXTREMELY well, ONLY becuase of how the FWD vehicle are being driven, Late APEX is KEY!!!! another thing is your very limited to how much power you put to the front wheels, as it makes the tries traction completly gone and UNDERSTEER massively. N/a is the only option here, you NEVER see turbo charged FWD cars handle. at least I havent.
I personaly dont really like AWD for racing, I perfer RWD platforms, AWD are only good for exit cornering. IMO RWD is the happy medium.

I really hate to say this as using games to prove a point is jsut stupid, but go play GT4 and you will see what i mean.
 
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S13 Slide said:
2 BIG things that are bad on FWD cars, all the weight is up front, and 2 the front tires do EVERYTHING, BRAKE, ACCELERATE, GRIP....while RWD vehicles ussally have better front and rear weight distribution, and the front tires only have to worry about braking and grip....also FWD front tires heat up very fast which in turn makes them not grip at all, now I have seen WAY to many videos of FWD vehicles handling EXTREMELY well, ONLY becuase of how the FWD vehicle are being driven, Late APEX is KEY!!!! another thing is your very limited to how much power you put to the front wheels, as it makes the tries traction completly gone and UNDERSTEER massively. N/a is the only option here, you NEVER see turbo charged FWD cars handle. at least I havent.
I personaly dont really like AWD for racing, I perfer RWD platforms, AWD are only good for exit cornering. IMO RWD is the happy medium.
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I agree. Besides, awd and fwd won't reach top speeds like a rwd car would. That's why the world's fastest civic had to be converted to RWD ;). If anything fwd handle better in the rain than a rwd does but that's about it.
 
S13 Slide said:
2 BIG things that are bad on FWD cars, all the weight is up front, and 2 the front tires do EVERYTHING, BRAKE, ACCELERATE, GRIP....while RWD vehicles ussally have better front and rear weight distribution, and the front tires only have to worry about braking and grip....also FWD front tires heat up very fast which in turn makes them not grip at all, now I have seen WAY to many videos of FWD vehicles handling EXTREMELY well, ONLY becuase of how the FWD vehicle are being driven, Late APEX is KEY!!!! another thing is your very limited to how much power you put to the front wheels, as it makes the tries traction completly gone and UNDERSTEER massively. N/a is the only option here, you NEVER see turbo charged FWD cars handle. at least I havent.
I personaly dont really like AWD for racing, I perfer RWD platforms, AWD are only good for exit cornering. IMO RWD is the happy medium.

I really hate to say this as using games to prove a point is jsut stupid, but go play GT4 and you will see what i mean.
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As good as GT4 is, I wouldn't refer to a video game to tell me exactly what is good and what is not. Let's talk about real life here. I have seen Option Videos with turbo EK9s that run Tsukuba in under 1 minute, and we should all know that Tsukuba is not a power oriented track. Yes, N/A works better for FFs, but knowing your suspension setup and tire selection on an FF can make it as competive as an FR. The Spoon Sports EK9 uses 215 tires in front and 195 tires in the back to minimize understeer. I don't know what the lap time for the Spoon Sports car is, but I remember the testers being very impressed with it's performance. Yes, FFs have problems with traction, and they are prone to understeer, but anything can be fixed with any platform you use on a car.

BTW, I can get my Turbo CRX to run my built S13 around Tsukuba in GT4. ;) :laugh: :bigthumbu
 
oh ok since FWD is the best, we should build a FWD go kart, of even a FWD GTP car, oh no the newest thing to come out of japan, CONVERT ALL of our RWD cars to FWD!!! YAY
 
Skip Barber "Going Faster"

^Good book. Some of u guys need to pick this up. It'll teach you everything you need to know. Just to put my .02 in.

If you have two ultimately built cars one bing RWD, the other FWD. Yes, the RWD car will out perform it Handling. Like stated above, FWD uses the same 2 tires for Grip/Acceleration/Braking/Steering therefore giving the RWD car an advantage.

Ofcourse, driver plays a role.
 
Under_Control said:
Skip Barber "Going Faster"

^Good book. Some of u guys need to pick this up. It'll teach you everything you need to know. Just to put my .02 in.

If you have two ultimately built cars one bing RWD, the other FWD. Yes, the RWD car will out perform it Handling. Like stated above, FWD uses the same 2 tires for Grip/Acceleration/Braking/Steering therefore giving the RWD car an advantage.

Ofcourse, driver plays a role.
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Ive read it, good stuff. Its alot of what you need to know. But not everything, keep reading other authors.


stock vs slightly modified 240, ITR wins.
 
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